German ex-security adviser urges Berlin to recognize Palestinian state

Former Munich Security Conference chairman Christoph Heusgen has urged the German government to recognize a Palestinian state, citing the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

In a guest article for the RND media group published Friday, Heusgen wrote that recognition would be viewed worldwide as a "particularly strong gesture" given Germany’s reputation as a close ally of Israel.

He said the step would not alter conditions immediately but would signal solidarity with Palestinians if Berlin joined the majority of countries that already extend recognition.

Heusgen, a longtime adviser to former Chancellor Angela Merkel, pointed to momentum ahead of the UN General Assembly in September, where France, Canada, and Australia are among those planning to recognize a Palestinian state.

However, the German government has pushed back on the idea. Spokesman Stefan Kornelius said in late July that recognition is considered "one of the final steps" toward a two-state solution, which foresees an independent Palestine coexisting peacefully alongside Israel.

More than half of Germans now support recognizing a Palestinian state, a recent poll showed.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-updates-economy-shrinks-more-than-expected/live-73728000

 

 

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YOURDEMOCRACY.NET RECORDS HISTORY AS IT SHOULD BE — NOT AS THE WESTERN MEDIA WRONGLY REPORTS IT.

 

         Gus Leonisky

         POLITICAL CARTOONIST SINCE 1951.

 

Bob Carr on the Australian Jewish Lobby
THOMAS DALTON

 

The following are excerpts from an interview with Bob Carr, former Australian premier for New South Wales—the largest state in Australia and home of that nation’s largest city, Sydney. Carr, 77, served as premier from 1995 to 2005, and then later as Foreign Minister (2012–2013). He is a member of the Labor Party, which leans center-left in politics. When in office, he supported efforts to reduce immigration into Australia; he was also a defender of Julian Assange. Early in his career, Carr supported Israel but his views shifted over time as he learned more about the situation in Palestine. Recently, he took part in the pro-Palestine “March for Humanity” in Sydney (August 3), in which between 100,000 and 300,000 people took to the streets to protest the genocide in Gaza.

The Islamic news channel OnePath Network interviewed Carr, which aired August 22. The discussion focused primarily on the situation in Gaza, the Australian Jewish Lobby, and the practical politics of dealing with a potent political adversary. It is a strikingly honest discussion by Carr, perhaps the most open and explicit by any major Australian leader.

The following are highlights from the 40-minute interview (in full here). The Islamic interviewer is unnamed, apparently by intention. I note here that I used an auto-transcription process to generate the following text, and so there are some slight deviations in wording (but not meaning) from the actual video. Notable in Carr’s language is the use of ‘Jewish’ rather than simply ‘Israeli’; it is a small but significant shift in emphasis that gets closer to the heart of the problem.

--------------------------------------------

 

OnePath:  Today, we are joined by one of the most experienced figures in Australian politics, former Australian Foreign Minister, and the longest-serving Premier of New South Wales, the honorable Bob Carr. Thank you for being with us, Bob.

Carr: It is my pleasure to be with you and talk to the community.

OnePath:  Today, Bob, you are recognized as one of the strongest critics of Israel in Australia and an advocate for Palestinian rights. You have been famously photographed among those who led the historic march, the March for Humanity across the iconic Sydney Harbor Bridge. Early in your career in 1977, you co-founded Friends of Israel in the Labor Party with Bob Hawke, earning you a reputation, as you know, as a respected friend and ally of Israel. What was the specific moment in your career when your perspective changed?

Carr: I think it was gradual, reflecting me getting to know Palestinians and their stories. Because none of us in the seventies knew a Palestinian, or knew the story of a Palestinian family, or knew what the massacres that were part of the establishment of the State of Israel were. We didn’t know that back then. That was not on anyone’s mind, not even the educated person in the Western world. We were blind to that story. And one of the simmering concerns that undermined any faith I had in the State of Israel was the spread of settlements.

About the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was pretty clear that the settlements were serious. And they would, at least, hinder the establishment of the Palestinian state, and it appears they were intent on preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state, despite all the assurances we received from the spokespeople of Israel. And today, even as we speak, this is being confirmed through explicit statements from members of the Israeli cabinet that these settlements will prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

OnePath (3:10): Yes, that is interesting. I want to take you back to the time when you were the Foreign Minister of Australia [in 2013], when the United Nations wanted to hold a vote to upgrade Palestine’s status to a non-member observer state. The Prime Minister at that time, Julia Gillard, wanted to follow the United States and Israel, but you objected and succeeded in securing an abstention from the vote. In your memoirs, you later asked whether the Labor Party’s reliance on donations from the Jewish community had shaped its stance. How significant was that moment for you in obtaining the abstention, and what did that experience teach you about Australian politics?

Carr: The big thing it taught me is that promoting Palestinian rights at a time when it was considered a dangerous opinion was really like pushing against a half-open door. Because when I tested my opinion with the Parliamentary Labor Party, after Julia Gillard made it clear in the Cabinet that she would not change to alter our vote in the General Assembly [to upgrade Palestine’s status], when I tested it in the party caucus, I found that they feel the same way as I do toward Israel and toward its contempt, its almost hidden contempt, for the two-state solution.

The majority of the Cabinet agreed with me that Australia should not oppose this resolution in the General Assembly to upgrade the status of the Palestinian delegation. It was interesting what was said around the cabinet table, when they were saying, instead of abstaining from voting, why don’t we vote Yes? Why don’t we vote Yes? But this was considered a risky opinion when I was arguing against the Prime Minister’s wishes, who was my boss; but the big lesson from that is that the ordinary members of parliament, whom I hadn’t yet asked for their opinions, had reached the same position I had. The support for Israel was very shallow, and people like me started questioning the entire settlement expansion process.

OnePath (5:47): As you know, in the United States, lobbying groups like AIPAC hold big sway over politicians through donations and funded trips to Israel. You have previously spoken about a similar influence of the Israeli lobby here in Australia. Based on your experience and knowledge, how deep is this influence, and should Australians be concerned?

Carr: I think Australians should be concerned. I have said, and I am recorded as having said, that the Israeli lobby—I believe the [term] ‘Jewish-Israeli Lobby’ is more accurate, because that is the term used by AIJAC [Australia Israel and Jewish Affairs Council]—the Jewish-Israeli Lobby in Australia is a foreign influence operation. It is designed to place Israel’s interests above Australia’s in its foreign policy. No one else has such a well-funded operation. No one else, no other country, has an operation with offices in every Australian capital city. No one else organizes donations to try to raise their influence, like the Jewish Lobby in Australia does.

Now, this is simply a fact of life, and I recorded it in my diary as Foreign Minister, and it has never been contradicted. …

And the model for the Jewish Lobby is what happens in the United States. If any member of Congress or the Senate expresses a view criticizing Israel or sympathizing with the Palestinian cause, you can guarantee that someone will receive funding from pro-Israel supporters to run against them in the next primary And the person they find to run against the incumbent, he might be someone who has never expressed a view about Israel and Palestine, but there will be a well-funded opponent.

Now, I remember years ago, I had a meeting with someone from the Jewish Lobby in Washington who spelled this out to us. He explained to us… For a group of us, who were considered supporters of Israel, as we were at that time, this is how they operate. And if there is anyone, even in a remote Rocky Mountain state, or in a state with an insignificant population like Montana, any member of Congress who departs from the pro-Israel line can be guaranteed of having a well-funded opponent in the primary elections.

OnePath (8:45):  In the Australian context, how does this affect democracy?

Carr: Oh, it’s a distortion of democracy because instead of considering the priorities and interests of our foreign policy, we are swayed by taking the desires of the Jewish community into account. And they are very explicit that they… I mean, if there is the slightest departure, they will immediately seek a meeting with the Prime Minister to present their case. The prime ministers from the Liberal side—Malcolm Fraser was one of them—have confirmed this. Certainly Kevin Rudd confirms that. When he made the decision to kick out two Mossad agents in the Israeli embassy in Canberra, because Mossad, in an operation in the Gulf states, used someone holding an Australian passport to complete its mission, Rudd protested. And he was completely justified in doing so, and he expelled a couple of Mossad agents. There was an immediate request from the leadership of the Jewish community in Australia to speak to the Prime Minister.

So the Lobby conflates their desires as a community with the making of Australia’s foreign policy, and I think people have only now just woken up to the sheer bravado and arrogance [of this]. They say, “Hang on, how dare you?”

I mean, I used to get this response all the time as Foreign Minister. For example, and I like to be specific, here is a concrete example. As the Foreign Minister in New York for a meeting with the General Assembly, I issued a statement expressing opposition to the latest surge in Israeli settlements. And I got a request relayed thru Bruce Wolpe, advisor to Julia Gillard, to meet “the community,” to discuss this, referring to the leadership of the Jewish community.

And I told him, “No.” The opposition to the expansion of settlements is based on the fact that they are plainly illegal under international law. We oppose them in line with the policy of our like-minded allies, our partners—except for the United States, which does not use the word ‘illegal’, but at that time, used the word ‘illegitimate.’

So, I thought it was simply impertinent of the Jewish community to say, “Oh my goodness, the Australian Foreign Minister has expressed opposition to the expansion of settlements. We need to get him on line.”

OnePath (11:47):  Have you received any criticism for expressing this particular opinion?

Carr: […] I will not be silenced. I was not silenced when, as a premier, I agreed to a request to present a peace prize. It was not awarded by me, but by the University of Sydney, to the esteemed and respected Palestinian speaker—Hanan Ashrawi. And suddenly, there was a bullying campaign by the Jewish Lobby to force me, as the Premier of New South Wales, to pull out from the event.

Now, I had given my word that I would do it. I thought it was something that would support Israel’s interests, because it would be an award and acknowledgement for a Palestinian who supports a peaceful road toward Palestinian statehood.

It wasn’t good enough for them. That wasn’t enough. So they launched a campaign of petitions and lobbying. I received a phone call from a prominent figure in the business world asking me why I was doing this—as if talking to representatives of the Palestinian people was abnormal behavior. She was able to have conversations with left-leaning Israeli politicians, but somehow it was considered out of bonds for me, as the Premier of New South Wales, to speak with [Ashrawi] and present an award, an award that was not given by me, but by the University of Sydney.

And they got Catherine Greiner, who was a member of the committee that awarded the prize, to pull out from the function. And Lucy Turnbull, who was then, I believe, the Deputy Mayor of the city, pulled out.

And I just said, “I will not pull out.” I gave my word that I would present this peace prize. My commitment is taken seriously by a large Arab-background community, in New South Wales, indeed in Australia. And also by a small Palestinian community. How would it be if, after giving my word, I succumbed to lobbying from another community and turned my back? It would have been appalling. I stood firm. …

OnePath (14:28):  You are also a man of integrity. You have been very outspoken about Gaza, even comparing the scenes to Holocaust-like scenarios. In response to your comments, Alex Ryvchin from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry described your views, and I quote, as “shameful and utterly despicable.” He said that you show deep contempt for members of the Jewish community. [Ryvchin in a video clip:] “Look, it’s shameful and utterly despicable, showing his deep contempt for members of the Jewish community, especially its leadership.” How do you respond to comments like these? And do you still stand by your statements?

Carr: I stand by them absolutely, and they have grown stronger since I said them. Evidence of war crimes has accumulated, especially the use of famine against civilians. The analogy I used was a reference to the Warsaw Ghetto. The starvation of men, women, and children, the starvation of civilians, has been confirmed, has been confirmed. …

OnePath (16:28):  Are you saying it’s genocide?

Carr: Yes. Yes. If you destroy eighty percent of the people’s housing, if you cut off their supplies of food and medicine, if you increase the targeting of civilians, you will allow and live with it and consider it collateral damage. If you do not allow drinking water, if you flood the camps with polluted water, causing the spread of diseases, if you do not allow access to medicine and food even for children or pregnant women in the hospital, what other word can you use?

What other word does the dictionary give us? What is another word you can find in the thesaurus, beside the planned murder of a people?

It is what the Convention against Genocide means, genocide, which was drafted and lobbied for by a very determined survivor of the Holocaust in Poland [the Jewish lawyer, Raphael Lemkin, in 1944]. This is directed against civilians, destroying their homes, and making them live in unsanitary conditions in tents. I can’t believe what additional evidence would be required for people to say, “If you do this to a people, to a population of two and a half million, it can only be described in terms of genocide.”

OnePath (18:20):  You previously said that the Israeli Lobby was able to stop even routine criticisms of settlement expansion, and I mentioned the settlements. From your perspective and understanding of the situation, how damaging do you think Israeli settlement policies are to the freedom and future of the Palestinian people, and what do you think the public needs to understand about this issue?

Carr: […] I started to worry about this type of settlement a quarter of a century ago. Australian Jews, who support Israel, reassured me, saying: “Don’t worry. Don’t worry, Bob. If there is a peace settlement, those settlements in the West Bank will be dismantled quickly. The Israeli people urgently want a peace deal.”

But now we know we were being lied to, when Netanyahu told me when I was in his office as Foreign Minister, that he wants a two-state solution. And he had just given a speech a few days earlier supporting it. He was lying. The plan all along was to use the settlements to block the possibility of establishing Palestinian sovereignty with the support of the world community in the West Bank. […]

With reports circulating that they [Gazans] will be offered the option to live in Libya or South Sudan, I ask the Israeli Lobby, I ask the supporters of Israel, can you put yourselves in the minds of [a Palestinian] family? Their house was blown up. They left most of their belongings behind. They are embarking on a journey, perhaps on foot, because they cannot afford to rent a truck, toward a future in a tent. Imagine how that would be. Where is the humanity of the people in the Jewish Lobby in Australia? They haven’t uttered a word of criticism about the behavior of the Israeli Defense Forces, not a word.

OneStep (23:18):  Recently, Australia took a bold step in its desire to recognize a Palestinian state. Despite the many conditions surrounding this recognition, it represents a major shift in Australia’s official stance. Netanyahu came out to criticize Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese for his decision, and directed criticism at him on platform X, quoting: “History will remember Albanese for what he is; a weak politician who betrayed Israel and abandoned the Jews of Australia.” You have met Netanyahu in person. What do you think of his comments?

Carr: Well, even the Israeli Lobby, even the Jewish Lobby in Australia, say they have not been abandoned by Prime Minister Albanese. It’s an absurd smear, without any basis of evidence. And it’s shocking to say that, as it says everything about Netanyahu and nothing about Anthony Albanese…

Albanese should be granted the status of a hero, and I believe the Australian people will grant him that for standing up and branding this as wrong. I think the reaction of Australians, including, interestingly, some Australian Jews, is that saying this about our Prime Minister is simply wrong. Even the Jewish Lobby in Australia does not support what Netanyahu did. […]

OneStep (29:40):  You are a former journalist, and we have seen some media outlets harshly criticize the Labor Party’s recognition of Palestine. Some of the headlines we’ve seen recently from The Australian , “A shameful day for Australia.” The Daily Telegraph says, “It’s a slap in the face.” Is the Australian media partially responsible for fanning division in the face of genocide accusations in Gaza?

Carr: Yes. Well, the one thing I can say with confidence is that those media campaigns to defend Israel are not working. This doesn’t work. Public opinion has shifted. The majority of opinions support Albanese. The same media sources that are trying to rally support for Netanyahu over our government, over our Prime Minister, were defending Peter Dutton and supporting his election as Prime Minister in the May elections. It had no effect. There are unified shifts in favor of the Labor Party in every state, in every electoral district across the country. […]

OneStep (37:22): Given the international arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu due to the alleged war crimes he committed in Gaza, should he come to Australia, do you think Australia should seek to arrest him if he comes here?

Carr: We have no alternative but to arrest him. It is our obligation as a signatory to the treaty. And look at America, America did not sign the treaty. America does not believe in an international criminal justice system. We do. We have signed. We will be obligated to arrest him.

OneStep (37:55):  Do you think it’s time for Australia to impose some sanctions on Israel in response to what you and others have described as genocide in Gaza? And if so, what form should these sanctions take?

Carr: If a state knowingly commits genocide, uproots civilians, sends them on death marches, reduces the population to walking corpses, expresses satisfaction with the death of Palestinian babies, and allows the IDF to shoot children, then how do we deal with that? Do we deal with the perpetrators of this like a normal nation with normal diplomatic contacts? I don’t think we can.

And I believe it is better to start by evaluating diplomatic options, including sanctions, and discussing with like-minded countries how to revise our relations with Israel, given Israel’s pursuit of an open, unabashed, and arguably proud policy of genocide against this exposed, vulnerable, and wretchedly weakened civilian people. […]

OneStep:  Mr. Bob Carr, thank you very much for your time.

*****

All in all, a remarkable interview, one not likely to get much coverage in the US or Europe. Carr comes across as a man who, after decades of trying to understand and compromise with the Jewish community, finally figured out, at age 77, that they are largely incorrigible liars, manipulators, and exploiters of human suffering for their own benefit. Those of us who have spent years studying the Jewish Question are not surprised in the least, but it is encouraging to see that at least one major political figure is now willing to speak some words of truth.

Naturally, I take this as good news. It certainly seems as if, for the Jews, the wheels are coming off the buggy. And not just in one nation, but rather, for the first time in history, in the whole world—at once. This could spell a radical, large-scale shift in non-Jewish and White attitudes toward Jews in general. There is reason for hope.

Remember, if there is one lesson from history, it is this: It’s not “the Zionists,” not “the Israelis,” not “the globalists”…it’s the Jews. And their time is quickly coming to an end.

Thomas Dalton, PhD, is the author or editor of some three dozen books on the Jews, Judaism, and the Jewish Question. All his books can be found at www.clemensandblair.com. See also his personal website, www.thomasdaltonphd.com.

 

https://www.unz.com/article/bob-carr-on-the-australian-jewish-lobby/

 

 

READ FROM TOP.

 

YOURDEMOCRACY.NET RECORDS HISTORY AS IT SHOULD BE — NOT AS THE WESTERN MEDIA WRONGLY REPORTS IT.

 

         Gus Leonisky

         POLITICAL CARTOONIST SINCE 1951.